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Future Of The Mortality Files
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From:
Bernie [mailto:hill55@vtown.com.au]
From:
Allen Petersen [
mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
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From:
Terry Fogarty [mailto:terry.fogarty5@gmail.com]
Allen, John, Ted,
I’m happy to put emails up on the web site. Probably need to create a new web page – that’s not hard. I don’t particularly want to censor people’s thoughts but I would do it manually. I.e. the emails would have to be sent to me and I would upload them. I’ve tried the automatic way and you end up with pornographic material which some people attribute to the web site.
Another thought is to see if the Funeral Directors would be prepared to provide such information. Consent of NOK would be required but in most cases it would probably be given. Tony Scroope told me that they were required to advise DVA.
If response was sufficient a “Veterans Funeral Notices” web site could be established. It would be low cost advertising for funeral directors. It probably would not take much to canvas them.
It possibly is a good issue for veterans to campaign on. There is negligible cost involved in relation to total DVA budget. Even more so when compared to wasted “stimulus” items.
I’ve been surprised by the web traffic the site generates. I think John Howard has done a lot to promote the site with the help of other veterans such as yourselves.
DVA are only concerned with privacy issues when it suits them. Our dates of birth are readily available from the Nominal Rolls as are our full names etc. KIA veterans have plenty of personal details readily disclosed in the media etc.
Thanks to everyone.
Cheers,
Terry Fogarty 16 Mann Avenue Northgate Qld 4013 Telephone: (07) 3266 6636 Mobile: 0419 668 197 Email: terry.fogarty5@gmail.com Webs: http://amvif.com A Fair Go For Responsible Dog Owners - http://fairgoqdogs.com
From:
Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
**John/Terry your thoughts on publishing Ted's missive and info. I'm I right in assuming 'disclosed FOI information' is exempt from Privacy Act provisions? This quote from Carolyn Spiers email below:
"While personal information about deceased persons is not specifically covered by the Privacy Act, the Federal Privacy Commissioner has encouraged agencies to be sensitive to the interests of surviving family members when considering disclosure of such information. Given the advice of the Privacy Commissioner, the Department protects the personal information of a deceased client as if the Privacy Act does apply to that information. "
Allen
From: remloc To: 'Allen Petersen' Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 6:12 PM Subject: RE: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE
Allen, Please circulate, and I’m not concerned about my privacy with such serious matters. Keep presenting them with lists of Vietnam veterans’ names and service numbers, requiring nothing more than information from DVA FOI on whether they are SURVIVING OR DECEASED [WITH A DOD] This info is immediately available from their computers, and certainly not time consuming. Use the reference I have provided if required, albeit, I don’t know if it would create an ongoing precedence, or is otherwise useful, albeit, my inquiry was premised on nothing more than establishing the names of those members listed that have passed away, including their date of death etc. Personally, I don’t care about exposure with such matters. With the 2nd D & E Platoon inquiries: 3 [three] of the men from a total of 40 [forty] presented were unknown to DVA as clients, which is about 7.5%. I know two of these men returned to Scotland. I can’t say these statistics are a “yardstick” that represent the average DVA clients per platoon, or unit, but it is an accurate measurement for this rifle platoon, and of course it would vary somewhat from unit to unit. Unfortunately DVA only respond to constant and unrelenting pressure, with a legal, ethical and moral focus of persuasion. This is a worthwhile project and I sincerely hope that John Howard succeeds. Ted Colmer
From:
Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au] Ted, can I pass this onto John Howard and Terry Fogarty who maintain the website- deleting references to you and DVA. This info makes a lie of DVA's Privacy policy below? cheers, Allen
From: remloc To: 'Allen Petersen' Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 10:16 AM Subject: RE: VIETNAM VETERANS MORTALITY WEBSITE
PRIVATE PLEASE: From: Blair, Rhonda Cc: King, Jodie ; Ryan, Lyn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:48 PM Subject: SEARCH AND LISTING OF DECEASED MEMBERS [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] good afternoon, Mr Colmer I refer to your request to Lyn Ryan of our office for information about members of your platoon who are deceased. I have gone through your list of members this morning, and would like to advise the following: The following members are recorded on our database, and are deceased (date of death in brackets): 9. Pte Robert Joseph CAIRNS, 218602 - DOB: 12/08/1949 - DECEASED (6/5/2002) 32. Owen William SCHULER, 1201677 - DOB: 05/02/1945 - deceased (11/2/1975) 34. Pte Anthony SEYCHELL, 39483 - DOB: 13/08/1947 - DECEASED, DOD: JANUARY 2008 - (date of death is actually 3/12/2007). Our computer database does not show details of the cause of death, nor the place of death of veterans.
There is no record at all on the Department of Veterans' Affairs computer database of: 14. Pte Leonard ELLCOMBE, 312601 - DOB: 03/07/1945 - BELIEVED DECEASED GLASGOW SCOTLAND?, 16. Pte Colin James FAHY, 1201633 - DOB: 9/11/1949, 22. Pte Dennis James MCGREGOR, 312644 - DOB: 26/08/1949, and 28. Pte Brian RENNIE, 312641 (Deceased DOW 9 RAR) DOB: 09/08/1948 - DOD: 07/09/1969 as such, we cannot confirm if these gentlemen (#'s 14, 16, 22) are alive or deceased.
I trust that this informtion will be of assistance to you.
regards
From:
Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au] From: Spiers, Carolyn Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: Veterans Mortality Web Site...
Dear Mr Petersen
I am writing to confirm that it is not possible for DVA to provide this information directly to the operators of the website. The Department is bound by the Commonwealth Privacy Act 1988 which regulates the handling of 'personal information' and aims to protect the privacy of individuals. The Information Privacy Principles (IPPs), set out in section 14 of the Act, impose obligations on agencies regarding the way personal information is handled.
The Principles: · regulate the way Government agencies collect, store, use and disclose personal information about people; · allow people access to information agencies keep about them; and · allow people to request changes to information.
In particular IPP 11.1 sets out when an agency may disclose personal information to another person or agency. The can be done where:
While personal information about deceased persons is not specifically covered by the Privacy Act, the Federal Privacy Commissioner has encouraged agencies to be sensitive to the interests of surviving family members when considering disclosure of such information. Given the advice of the Privacy Commissioner, the Department protects the personal information of a deceased client as if the Privacy Act does apply to that information.
For instance, as part of the process of compiling a nominal roll, the Department undertakes a significant publicity campaign to inform individuals and family members (in the event of the service member’s death) of the intention to create the roll. This allows the individual or family member to seek an exclusion from the roll.
Even putting the privacy issues to one side, the Department only holds and updates information about those Vietnam veterans who are in receipt of pensions, allowances or other services funded by the Department. As you would appreciate, there are some Vietnam veterans who have not and may never approach this Department for assistance. As such, the Department does not hold information on all Vietnam veterans.
I trust this information is of assistance in understanding why your request is not possible.
Regards,
Carolyn Spiers National Manager Business Integrity & Legal Services
From:
Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
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From:
Terry Fogarty [mailto:terry.fogarty5@gmail.com]
Carolyn,
John Howard (from Wodonga – not the ex PM) maintains the “Mortality Files” and sends updated Excel Files every month. I upload them to my web site.
My letter to Alan Griffin and his reply are enclosed as attachments.
My original intention was for DVA to run these files.
The workload is really too much for any one individual. Tony Scroope who started them found that to be the case. I also did – it took me an average of about 15 minutes to process each entry. I think John is also finding the workload pretty heavy – I think he added about 150 entries for the last two months. Most Vietnam Veterans are probably 60 years of age or older so the rate of deaths will only increase.
A summary of web visits for the last year is below:
I appreciate the fact that Allen Petersen took the trouble to contact you.
In terms of the overall DVA Budget any expenditure would be very small.
You could develop an online “Funeral Notices” section for all veterans, not just Vietnam Veterans. Australia’s veterans are spread not only all around Australia but all around the world.
Cheers,
Terry Fogarty 16 Mann Avenue Northgate Qld 4013 Telephone: (07) 3266 6636 Mobile: 0419 668 197 Email: terry.fogarty5@gmail.com Webs: http://amvif.com A Fair Go For Responsible Dog Owners - http://fairgoqdogs.com
From:
Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
From: Spiers, Carolyn Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: Veterans Mortality Web Site...
Dear Mr Petersen
I am writing to confirm that it is not possible for DVA to provide this information directly to the operators of the website. The Department is bound by the Commonwealth Privacy Act 1988 which regulates the handling of 'personal information' and aims to protect the privacy of individuals. The Information Privacy Principles (IPPs), set out in section 14 of the Act, impose obligations on agencies regarding the way personal information is handled.
The Principles: · regulate the way Government agencies collect, store, use and disclose personal information about people; · allow people access to information agencies keep about them; and · allow people to request changes to information.
In particular IPP 11.1 sets out when an agency may disclose personal information to another person or agency. The can be done where:
While personal information about deceased persons is not specifically covered by the Privacy Act, the Federal Privacy Commissioner has encouraged agencies to be sensitive to the interests of surviving family members when considering disclosure of such information. Given the advice of the Privacy Commissioner, the Department protects the personal information of a deceased client as if the Privacy Act does apply to that information.
For instance, as part of the process of compiling a nominal roll, the Department undertakes a significant publicity campaign to inform individuals and family members (in the event of the service member’s death) of the intention to create the roll. This allows the individual or family member to seek an exclusion from the roll.
Even putting the privacy issues to one side, the Department only holds and updates information about those Vietnam veterans who are in receipt of pensions, allowances or other services funded by the Department. As you would appreciate, there are some Vietnam veterans who have not and may never approach this Department for assistance. As such, the Department does not hold information on all Vietnam veterans.
I trust this information is of assistance in understanding why your request is not possible.
Regards,
Carolyn Spiers National Manager Business Integrity & Legal Services
From:
Allen Petersen [mailto:petersaj@bigpond.net.au]
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